Sigh. It’s hard to know what to say about the email furore that is currently raging across the 24h rolling news media. Sunny Hundal has a pretty good stab at it, as does Sadie.
Probably Tom Harris has the right idea, with his if you can’t say something nice approach.
Still, I suppose I should say something, or I’ll get told I don’t say anything when it looks bad for Labour.
So here’s that something, after the jump.
All that follows notwithstanding though, this is a really fundamentally pointless, inside politics story. It’s the sort of thing I wish wasn’t news. So, I’d really prefer it if you were interested in what I have to say about Liquidity traps, because y’know, that stuff actually matters.
Yeah, thought so. Go on then.
1. Sending emails discussing the idea of spreading untrue negative stories about political opponents is a very bad idea indeed, on many levels.
I’ve no idea what’s in the emails, but given the way they’re being talked about, I think the PM said the right thing by saying it has no place in politics.
From a press officer’s point of view, getting caught doing something like this is a bit like being caught in bed with a woman not your wife. There’s no point making excuses or arguing the toss, it just makes you look worse. Apologise fully and try to move on.
(A caveat, I wouldn’t criticise anyone who was sent such an email. I get lots of emails suggesting stories. Some are good, some are bad. If I had to reply to every bad story with some stern remonstrance, I’d be very bored – and no, afaik, I didn’t get copied in.)
2. Mind you, I do want to point out that none of this ever happened. This was all discussed back in January, but to date no stories were spread, no smears were made. It didn’t happen. The only reason we know about it is because someone published private emails because they wanted to pour ordure on Damian McBride and Derek Draper. Is that totally OK?
To go back to my previous analogy, If you get caught sending an email saying you’re considering cheating on your husband, it’s bad, but it’s not as bad as actually cheating on them. If you discuss something and then don’t do it, you shouldn’t be treated as if you did it already. (Mind you, none of this contradicts point 1 above. There’s no mileage in fighting on the margins here.)
3. That said, what is really driving me up the wall is that it makes Guido Fawkes/Paul Staines into a campaigner for honesty and clean politics.
Arglebargle. Where to start with this madness?
This is the guy who has spent more time propogating political smears on the internet than anyone else. It’s the raison d’etre of his site. Paul Staines regularly smeared Gordon Brown in the foulest and ugliest possible ways, has regularly posted stories that were unsubtantiated and untrue (Journalists – If he says “name one” – there’s three on this page alone, and he did it live on Newsnight.).
I mean what can you say about a man who helped set up and fund “the Sunlight centre for open politics” but kept that quiet when he publicised its work (until other people exposed the links)?
The best you can say is that he has a fine sense of theatre. The worst is more libellous than anything in any email.
What’s more, Paul Staines political past, as right hand man to Thatcherite hatchet man David Hart, means that if there’s anyone in blogging who knows all about underhanded dirty politics, it’s Paul Staines. As he’s turned himself into the sewer of British politics he’s been egged on by Tory MPs, supported by Tory bloggers, publicised again and again by lazy national journalists, and made a reputation for himself on TV. This is a bad thing.
For these reasons I can’t stand his site, though I understand he’s rather an amusing drinking companion, as many genial rogues are. So to have this walking puddle of dirty tricks and unfounded allegations being able to pose as a crusader against smears – well, it’d be laughable if it wasn’t so depressing.
The sad thing about this is that we’ve given his cesspit of a site both publicity and the moral upper hand, and that really annoys me.
(BTW, I pretty much exclude Iain from this calumny. I know Tim Ireland and other right thinking people have issues with Iain, but I’ve always felt he was a normal political operator, and could be treated with the same approach you’d use with any other openly propagandising right wing writer, like Hitchens or Oborne. In that he’s very different to Staines. When I’ve attacked him, he’s behaved pretty civilly. On the other hand, Nadine Dorries is a negative force in British politics, mostly because of her willingness to distort facts and evidence on a very important issue)
4. Finally, It is iinteresting that these emails came to light. I’d like to know whether they were leaked, whether emails were hacked. Frankly, the idea that it’s OK to hack email accounts is pretty disturbing, if that’s what happened. Again, this doesn’t contradict point 1) but it does matter.
I don’t want to be in a situation where Paul Staines thinks it’s OK to try and hack my email accounts. Not that he’d find much. Except the spam. lots of spam. It’s not as if he and leading Tory campaigners don’t have familiarity with sock puppets and other dodgy tactics.
So that’s what I think. Gosh, I think too much. I may come back and edit (11.30 I did, typos, for sense and clearing up references to when all this was discussed) and add more later on, but now I’ve got a date with a curry (which was very nice).
Full disclosure: I’ve met Derek once and like him. When he was setting up labourlist I wrote him a note about online campaigning. I’ve met Damian a few more times, and like him too. I wanted Labourlist to succeed so I’ve emailed Derek a couple of times with suggestions for stories, about Tory economic policy and their economic recovery panel. One of which turned into a memorably long and boring labourlist post, which actually i think is more interesting and important than this scandal. (But then, I think the views of Lars Svensson on Liquidity traps are more important and interesting thatn this story, which is why I only get a thousand or so readers a day).
31 Comments
April 11, 2009 at 7:11 pm
A reasonable attempt to defend the indefensible, if it weren’t for that headline.
April 11, 2009 at 7:17 pm
… and admitting to liking Draper.
April 11, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Interesting; you don’t think that it is wrong for a Civil Servant, paid for by taxpayers’ money, to activelly working on behalf of a political party?
Breaks the Civil Service Code of Practice.
Corruption and deceit have become so common place that you see them as normal.
Sad, but shows the state of the labour party I guess.
He shouldn’t have been allowed to resign, he should have been fired he breach his contract with malice aforethought.
April 11, 2009 at 8:03 pm
PRIVATE emails ?
not so – .gov emails; written apparently in WORKING time by a CIVIL SERVANT.
If this is so; then there are two possible conclusions :
1) it was done with full knowledge & approval of his boss : Guidio Fawkes case proven; Labour party in No 10 are guilty as charged
2) it was NOT done with approval – in which case he is guilty of mis-using government equipment and abusing his position as a civil servant which post is supposed to be Apolitical
either way Mcbride must go; and if 1) so must lots of other people.
Right Thinking people are not restricted to people in the labour party; on the contrary if the examples in the news recently are anything to go by; the labour party is the last place to find ‘right thinking people’
April 11, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Yup, I thought so. It’s all the Tories’ fault. The fact that Gordon Brown’s closest man is libelling senior Tory MPs is down to Margaret Thatcher. Of course; silly me.
April 11, 2009 at 8:13 pm
No, sorry, that wasn’t a reasonable attempt. You can’t use the “it never happened so it’s not that serious” line – it’s not like a bunch of e-mails have been discovered where they think about it, mull it over, and decide not to – the only reason the lies were not spread was because they got busted.
In Law there is a “conspiracy to commit x” crime just for this purpose, and if found guilty people go to prison without having committed any crime whatsoever if it can be proven that they were preparing to do so. Let’s see the contents of the e-mails tomorrow shall we…..
And as for attacking Staines – that’s beside the point. Yes, it’s hypocritical, but name me one of Fleet Street’s finest who is similarly without sin. Since when did journalists have to be whiter than white in order to file stories? Staines is no journo but quite clearly some whistleblower leaked the e-mails to him – it’s a bit much to expect him to pass up on the opportunity to put one over on his arch enemies.
And what’s with the “frankly the idea that it’s OK to hack e-mail accounts is pretty disturbing” – please can you direct me to a post you did at the time that Sarah Palin’s account got hacked, then I’ll believe you – otherwise, it’s a bit ironic for you to be calling other people a hypocrite…..
April 11, 2009 at 8:16 pm
What an utter load of drivel.
April 11, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Well, thanks for all the support.
In answer to some of the points – no, I don’t think it’s ok to send these emails from a gov account, from a gmail account or any other account. It was a very bad idea, no matter what account was used. Frankly though I’ve used my parliament account to flirt with my girlfriend, send business ideas to friends and arrange stag do’s. So I’m not to go on about the sanctity of the .gov address.
You need to seperate out the two issues -1) was this a good thing to do? Answer: no. 2) Is paul staines someone to respect and defer to on matters of probity and political honesty? Answer: hell, no.
The fact that by messing up on issue 1 we’ve made issue 2 even worth discussing really annoys me.
April 11, 2009 at 8:53 pm
On a really annoying day, there’s one thing that almost approaches consolation – there isn’t a left wing Guido.
April 11, 2009 at 8:55 pm
But it’s only you who is making #2 an issue – I don’t see Staines going round the studios touting himself as a model citizen? And it’s not like he’s asking anyone to believe him on the basis of ‘my word against his’ – he has the proof.
In 1943 the Katyn massacre of thousands of Polish Army officers by the Red Army came to light. The fact that it was the Nazis who found the bodies and organised the press conference doesn’t mean that people started to defer to them on matters of probity and honesty. It’s a dumb analogy on grounds of magnitude but it’s the principle I’m trying to get across!
April 11, 2009 at 9:02 pm
srlsy. An attempt at nuance and suddenly you’re ‘defending the indefensible’. If I weren’t a blog commenter I’d hate all blog commenters.
And if anybody hasn’t ever sent a non-work email from their work email account, then I’m yet to meet them.
April 11, 2009 at 9:03 pm
hypoocrisy?
April 11, 2009 at 9:10 pm
… and yes indefensible, there is no defence.
April 11, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Alex
the disjoin between the political world & private industry is VAST.
People get sacked for sending in-appropriate emails from ‘their’ company accounts. It isn’t the fact that a .gov address was used it is the total disgrace of the contents that are the problem.
What we hate is the politicisation of the civil service.
The arrogance of those caught doing wrong (even if it was not illegal).
The never ending lies and distortions that come out from ALL political parties.
The refusal to accept responsibility.
The greed ( McBride was apparently paid a SIX FIGURE sum from the public purse) – which bit of get your thieving hands off our taxes don’t the labour party understand ? Pay your political cronies out of LABOUR party funds.
The average apolitical bloke in the street is just so dis-enchanted with the political class that they now expect this sort of thing along with the lies and attempted cover ups that goes with them; as well as the mind numbing greed of the whole rotten lot
April 11, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Hopi,
I am a cop who sees darkness round every corner and skullduggery in every shadow however, methinks this just might be a big old elephant trap.
1) Guido has clearly known about the e-mails for a long time. Probably had them for a while as well (or he knows he man who does). He’s been banging on about them there e-mails for a few weeks now.
2)Guido and Mrs Dale both have F.O.I. requests in. No reply yet. There never is.
3) This is exactly the sort of stuff that gets deleted after reading but oh what a lot of fuss if Guido has copies with all the cc’d names and the F.O.I. comes back with errrrm little or nothing. Was it deliberately deleted when the FOI request came in? Has a crime been committed? Yada Yada Yada
4) Cue calls for Yates of the Yard etc etc. Who deleted what? When was it deleted? Was it deleted without reading? Labour sleaze…Brown’s right hand man deleted the evidence….What did Gordon know? In about 2 weeks, all over again and this time with the press waving a hefty sheaf of Guido’s emails in one hand and a half page of “Sorry we couldn’t find much” from the F.O.I. in the other.
There’s a lot of nasty mileage down that road. It’s a still bleeding wound and it could all have been avoided by using mobiles and writing notes. Why do people send stuff like this in emails?
It’s always the cover up that gets you. This could do with a release of the e-mails and then see who survives after they make their explanations. Anything else just adds to the swelling narrative of a government that is more interested in power at all costs than in government.
In this case the unsympathetic picture is that the Prime Minister has been funding his personal attack dogs through the Civil Service. It has not helped that one of the Labour Party protagonists appears to have accidentally repeated a lie to the face of Ian Dale and on National TV.
April 11, 2009 at 10:40 pm
You like Draper? So there’s you and Kate Garraway.
Personally I hope the Labour movement keep Draper in charge of their online campaigns – this slow-motion car crash is just too entertaining.
Happy Easter.
April 11, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Nj,
Can’t argue too much with your thoughts about how all this could play out. When you f up this badly, your only option is to disclose everything, apologise and try to move on.
I think the PM is right on this and this sort of crap has no place in politics – but that goes for Guido too, so anyone who sees him on the high horse needs to remember the manure he’s spread for the last two years.
April 11, 2009 at 11:00 pm
Hopi
I don’t think anybody has ever had any illusions about Guido. He’s a right leaning attack blogger with a lot of Conservative history but, and it’s a big but, he appears to be a one man band. I will stand to be corrected if he turns out to be a sock puppet for David Cameron’s press SpAd or similar but I don’t believe that he is. In any case, what he is or isn’t doesn’t come into the equation.
Even if it is a bit like Dr. Mengele coming up with a cure for cancer, it is still potent stuff. The stories were set up and pre-edited, FFS they even prattled on about house style, lots of party big hitters were copied in to each and every e-mail including a Minister and a senior union employee in the union that funds LabourList, the RedRag web site was ready to roll, the only thing that was holding them back seems to have been working out the optimum timing in relation to a general election.
Shameful.
April 11, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Now I’ve read the Sunday Times story, I should re-emphasise that the content of the proposed “stories” are totally unacceptable. I don’t think one can go much further discussing this without acknowledging that basic fact.
As I said before…
U guys, Srsly. Srsly, u guys.
NJ,
Moving on from the story to the story behind the story, In my experience of politics- when someone has an idea, if it doesn’t happen within a month, it’s not going to happen. In fact, the easiest way to deal with a stupid proposal from a superior is just to sit on it while appearing to agree with it., a tactic that every staffer learns very quickly.
Now perhaps I’ve not seen all the emails, but the ones I’ve read about are between 4 people, two of whom say nothing, with no ministers copied in and dated mid Jan, roughly when labour list began, iirc.
The site is then set up, and no posts are ever made. Occams razor suggests it just stopped being discussed as, ah, labourlist developed in it’s own way and, ah, built it’s own reputation. is there evidence, rather than supposition that goes against this?
Finally, I don’t thingk Guido’s a sock puppet for anyone in CCHQ, rather it’s that he’s a useful idiot now, but an inherently disposable one. He’s like his old mentor David Hart in that respect, and I’m surprised he doesn’t realise that David Hart’s marginalised and written out fate awaits him too.
April 12, 2009 at 7:07 am
As far as Brown is concerned the only crime is getting caught. Are you really so stupid as to believe that, had the emails not come to light and the smear campaign had been put into action, that he would have said the same thing?
Staines is no saint and his comments may sometimes be unsubstantiated, but they put the situation into the public eye and cause further investigation.
The left wing bloggers just seem to spend their time trying to defend the indefensible and to deflect from the state of Britain under a ZaNu Laybuh Govt. They spend their time trying to hide the truth.
April 12, 2009 at 8:04 am
[...] *is* homophobic Flying Rodent: UK Politics – “Has It Really Come To This?” Edition Hopi Sen: The Hypoocrisy… it Burns… Francis Sedgemore: Why we hate politics (part 99) Iain Dale: Please let me be part of this story. [...]
April 12, 2009 at 3:09 pm
[...] we don’t have decent politicians as we’re not following the agenda he’d prefer. Hopi Sen at least admits that it “looks bad for Labour” but again we should all be more [...]
April 12, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Alex…for a start I have never sent an email from my work account to a private account. With the set up we have it is impossible (dont ask me to get all technical because I dont understand it!)
I think the big point here is that it was done by a supposed impartial civil servant, paid for by the taxpayer, in No. 10 Downing St, using government resources. In my past life in the navy, I have known people to be reprimanded for accidentally taking a ‘pussers’ pencil home. Also, this ‘impartial civil servant’ who used the government resources didnt just write them as a joke, it was a concerted effort to start a smear campaign. If he was an 18 yr old in his bedroom of course it would be different.
Dont forget, Labour have form in smearing. Remember the old lady who was left on a hospital trolley in a hospital corridor? She complained and some Labour apparatchik actually said words to the effect ’she must be a Tory voter’ (I cant remember the exact words)
As for Guido, yes he has past form. But dont forget, just like Littlejohn, Guido has dished the dirt on Caroline Spelman. He is anti-politician. Can you blame him?
April 12, 2009 at 3:38 pm
All of this stuff about ‘hacked’ email accounts is just misdirection. It creates an image of a black-clad spy hunched in a dark room hunched over a laptop loaded with covert intrusion software. In fact the truth is almost certainly more prosaic. If you send email it is stored in a multiplicity of places, and from a .gov email address it would end up on government mail servers. All sorts of people would have had access and it is probable that one of them is simply an old-fashioned whistle-blower, with what I would say is a pretty cast-iron public interest defence. It is interesting that the source chose a blog instead of the mainstream media, but given the nature of the emails it was actually quite a shrewd choice to ensure the story got out in the way that it has.
April 12, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Steve – you might well be right.
My personal attitude is that since it’s a gov’t email, there’s no prob with an FOI or leak being published, but it would be wrong to hack into an email account.
I suspect that given the way people protect their sources, we’ll never know unless someone has left a trail of evidence. that said, none of it reduces the burden on poeople not to do tasteless and stupid things. (Which I’m sure I’ve done in email.. though probably just embarrassing to me, rather than polically scandalous!)
April 12, 2009 at 9:08 pm
So because they didn’t actually get to do anything that’s okay then? Are we going to use that same outlook on terrorists now?
The only reason they DIDN’T do it was because they were caught out. And as for Gordon not knowing anything I don’t believe that either. He may not have sanctioned them but I’m convinced he knew about them.
Prove me wrong – have the whole sordid affair investigated as a Labour MP has also requested.
April 12, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Er, it clearly states in the post that th emails were from January. It’s now mid-April. If they were going to start smearing the Tories, then they would’ve already done it by now.
April 13, 2009 at 8:04 am
Perhaps the best way to discourage smearing in blogposts (by whoever) is a simple comment listing the smear count and what they are. It has the advantage of being immediate and to the point and needs no legislation – and the worst offenders will quickly become apparent.
April 13, 2009 at 10:13 am
“Why do people send stuff like this in emails?”
Arrogance.
Pretty much the same kind of arrogance that allows people to post ‘It’s not serious, and all cleared up now someone’s apologised and anyway, the other side do it too!’ kind of posts…
April 13, 2009 at 10:49 am
Breathtaking arrogance. I’m amazed (not) thatpeople such as yourself are trying to glaze over this entire sordid episode. For your information, it does matter to ordinary citizens that we have people in “our” government capable of sinking to such extreme depths.
I am not surpised that people such as yourself seem to think that this sort of behaviour is acceptable. It just illustrates the depths of vileness that this country has descended to under this Labour government. It’s time it, and it’s unelected leader, were consigned to the dustbin of history, where it belongs.
April 13, 2009 at 11:07 am
JC –
I’m quite impressed by the leap of logic that takes us from me saying “the content of the proposed “stories” are totally unacceptable” to you saying “people such as yourself seem to think that this sort of behaviour is acceptable”. What bit of “unacceptable” did you misread?
My argument is that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable wherever it comes from. Those who are accusing me of regarding it as unimportant are ignoring that entirely because it’s uncomfortable for them to admit.
So stop being silly.